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WARNING!!!
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5112		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Pwoolson [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:27 am ]
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Because this is a great place to learn from other people's mistakes, prepare to be eja-ma-cated.
Last night I was bending some Mahogany sides as I've done many, many times before. I had to run and errand (yes you know where this is going) and I left the bender on with the timer set. It only had ten minutes on it so I figured there could be no issues. I was gone about an hour and when I came back, my shop was completely filled with smoke and the side was a completely burnt, not schorched but burnt, chunk of blackness. When I pulled it out, it crumbled unto tiny, bite sized pieces.
I think I just had a VERY close call. From now on the bender doesn't even get plugged in unless I'm standing right there.
I'm an idiot!
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:54 am ]
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Thanks for the warning! It is good to be reminded, I suspect we all do these things we know we should not under any circumstance do once in a while.

Actually I don't think I have left the room when the bender was on yet, but I have had other close calls. Like using the belt sander to grind a new edge on a plane iron with the shop vac ON! I managed to throw the melting vac unit out the door before it actually caught on fire, but it too close. The smell lingered for days, I can still remember it.

Anyways, and I don't have to tell you this; consider yoursef lucky, Paul!
Author:  Mark Tripp [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:58 am ]
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Whoa!

Dodged the bullet on that one Paul! I was just bending on Monday and ran to the store with the timer on - everything was fine when I got back, but after hearing your story, I shant be doing that again! Whatever needs to be done can wait til that timer is off and unplugged!

Sorry about the Mahogany - happy you still have a shop!

-Mark
Author:  Pwoolson [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:01 am ]
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The mohogany is of such very little value compared to what could have been lost. I really don't even care about it. I still shudder to think what could have happened.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:03 am ]
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Been there done that..I have an extra t-shrit if you need one
Author:  John Elshaw [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:17 am ]
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Wow, I'm glad everything is OK Paul. That could have really been bad. What do you think happened, did the timer malfunction? Were you using a heat blanket or bulbs?

John
Author:  L. Presnall [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:21 am ]
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Coulda been worse...coulda been bending Brazilian~
Author:  LanceK [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:41 am ]
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Close call Paul! Thanks for the reminder!

I dont have a timer on my bender, and I never stray more than a few feet when im bending, and I never leave it pluged in either. All for the reasons stated here
Author:  Don Williams [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:47 am ]
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Yes, Larry put that in proper perspective....



Glad it wasn't worse my friend...

Have you figured out why this happened? Did you have the temp set too high? What was it?

Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:56 am ]
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wow!! all this talk about accidents and close calls has me being super careful these days! Thanks for the heads up guys even though it came at your expense. Let's be careful out there!
Author:  Bobc [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:05 am ]
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Wow Paul that sure is scary. Can't trust mechanical parts. On another note: Your cam clamps are awesome.
Thanks again
Author:  Roy O [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:15 am ]
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Wow, that was scary close. A good lesson for all of us though.

Glad to hear you still have a house.
Author:  John How [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:29 am ]
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Yeah I don't like leaving those things plugged in when I'm not in the shop either. Did your bender survive the misfortune?
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:31 am ]
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Paul,

I am sure glad that aren't posting looking for a shop rebuilding party. Good warning, those timers do sometimes seem to click down and get stuck at the "just before they should turn off" spot.

Shane

Shane Neifer38764.4390277778
Author:  Brock Poling [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:34 am ]
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What happened to your timer? Those things seem pretty fool proof.

Author:  Pwoolson [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:55 am ]
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Hey guys, I'll try to update. As to what actually happened, I've got no idea. I'm guessing, as Shane said, the timer got stuck at the "just before it clicked off" point. It's one of those spring timers that you often see on heat lamps in bathrooms.
This is my first bend with two blankets. I did many tests to make sure the temp was good at my setting. All is good.
I bent the other side ala John Mayes' method. Heat, cool, heat, cool. Temp didn't get above 305? yet the side came out scorched. I'm using craft paper and spritzing as I've always done (well, I used to use foil, I think that trapped in the heat better.) So then I bent another. My thermomet read 167? yet there was steam and the sides were sagging under the weight of the clamps. Can't figure it out. Any thoughts?
Author:  Pwoolson [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:56 am ]
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On a seperate note: anyone know where to purchase a thermostat that has both upper and lower limits? Example: kick off at 300? kick back on at 250?.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:03 am ]
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I would think someone like maybe minco should carry one like that . It is going to be specialized process type item
Author:  Bobc [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:16 am ]
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Paul I have a setup like that. The blanket has to have a sensor built in. I don't know all the electrical end of it. I bought the blanket and temp control from Tom at Doc's mandolin. Don't have his e-mail but I thing you can use google to find him.
Author:  Don Williams [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:19 am ]
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WATLOW makes controller units that you can program to bring the blankets to a certain temperature, hold it, then reduce and hold, then turn off. I'm sure it's expensive, but if you're in this for the long haul, it's worth it. I saw one in the Borges Guitars workshop. Quite nice...
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:36 am ]
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Brock, when Mario was sharing his story about the hide glue pot evaporating all the water out, he mentioned his concern about burning his shop. I went right out and purchased two timers.

Both timers had this defect, they would run down and out of time, but didn't click off. I returned them to my electrical supply as defective, they were. Maybe they were made in Taiwan?

Quality is no longer a given for a part that cost $25 each. That said, it leads us to look for another possibility.

Paul, we are happy with the outcome, just as you are.
You wouldn't feel like playing in the snow with those kids if you were staring at a black hole.

Here is a safe alternative to the timers we have been having trouble with lately:



Ace Hardware Timers 2Pack $13.79, 1750 Watts. Pull the on pins and throw them away. Set one Red Pin which turns it off. Turn it on with only the rotating switch, set the clock to the time you want, and off it goes, with no ability to turn on again. Maybe you can just use one of these as a backup to what you already have hardwired?
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:45 am ]
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Most spring timers ask you to set the time to greater than 1/2 hour and then set it back to lower time. Failing to turn off might just be the failure mode you get when you set it directly to a shorter time.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:18 am ]
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Thanks for sharing this Paul, reminds me of the good habit of unplugging everything before leaving the shop.

I hope your bender and blankets are ok!
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:24 am ]
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Mike, when I was a kid, everyone had an attic fan with really nice quality timers. The ones recently purchased were a poor substitute. Even paying fifty bucks for the two, didn't give me the quality part needed here. That put me looking for alternatives, that work. I'm sure there is a good spring wound timer out there somewhere. The pic above has a tiny electric clock, and is mechanical, but very reliable. Nothing is fool proof. Olson shows his setup, a plug hanging off the bending blanket, no timer. The eyeball to eyeball method, no distractions. He's also known to spend an entire day bending sides for multiple guitars, so I guess you get a rhythm down.
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